Deliberations from Freezone 

Good Morning, I have a question, could you please help me? Two believers are planning on getting married and both are AS. The plan is to use IVF for birthing or perform some genetic test on conception. Please what is your advice on this? Also is removing an embryo in a case where one wants to prevent having a Sickler child against the word of God, as this is what will be done in IVF? Thank you.  God Bless you.

Responses from Ministers 

The fact they know their genotype and have made such decisions means they have weighed their choices, know what their choices would cost, and have prepared for it. So, they can go ahead with it. In the course of the journey of a pregnancy, an abnormality scan is always done to check if there's any abnormality with the baby. If there is, you'd be asked if you want to keep it or remove it. You will then weigh your option or "put your faith to the test". If they decide to do this for genotype, I think it's fine. I don't think that is "going against the word of God". Would you rather bring a child to life to make him/her suffer nonstop and in the process, you too suffer or you terminate it and have peace? If you do not have money to wedge the wahala, that is double wahala because frustration will wound you. - Sister Helen.

Science has come up with solutions for these kinds of situations, I don’t think it’s against the word of God especially if they want to go the science route to make sure they don’t birth to children who would suffer, people with HIV get married now and science helps the other partner to be safe, it’s not against God’s word. Also, I think if they want to remove an embryo, they should go ahead. My question to them is, would they have the mental capacity to wait through the stress of selecting a healthy child tho? If not the two both of them should face front. - Sister Rukky.

 Science can check and they can pick a healthy child but it’s not guaranteed. I have come across a couple who paid a lot of money here in the UK (Caucasian British Family) to pick a healthy child - they also did further tests in a private clinic to doubly ensure the embryo was healthy - after birth - the child had a very very rare disability. If the couple in question, does this they really have to weigh the options and have the emotional and mental capacity for the journey. I am just saying they should weigh the options! Can and are they able to provide, go through, and sustain the emotional, mental, and physical needs that they as parents would need or that the child would need? Don’t forget financial need as well. What’s the point of walking into it with eyes open and then queuing night and day on a healing line,  barging at God’s door night and day? However, I found out recently from a clinical research pharmacist that trials have been done and there are now stem cell therapy treatments to change the SS cells. - Sister Bukky.

 If both of them understand the commitment and the financial implications, and they are ready for it. This is almost like asking if is it right to do IVF to have a baby, or is it right to give birth through CS or natural delivery?   Sister Funmilola.

 Since they have both agreed to this choice, no wahala. Do you know how many eggs are termed non viable before a good one is chosen for fertilization? What happens to those eggs? Couples who are AA have done this and they have their testimonies. It is called “Assisted Reproduction” Funny enough, they might not have an SS child because the probability is 1/4. I pray their love stands the test of time o - Sister Jennifer.

 I have a case in our church. The man is SS and the wife AS. Their first daughter is SS and for many years they didn't have any other child because of the stress of care. They however eventually opted for Assisted Reproductive Techniques and today, they have a son who is 4 years old and AS. It's the financial implications they should consider and if they can afford it, let them go ahead. -Pastor Wale.

Good morning family, in my opinion, they can go ahead with the IVF but using a donor egg who is AA. Who wants to go through the pain or stress of testing the embryo and destroying it after a few months? - Sister Remi .

Yesterday, the topic was transferring an unwanted pregnancy which we all assumed was a healthy embryo. No one considered asking the young lady to have an abortion. Is a child any less a child because the child is not in optimal health? - Sister FUNMI .

While this is a way to look at it, it is also more reason for them to weigh their options well..their decision can affect someone else completely. How do you explain to a child that "..we knew we were both AS, we also had the option of assisted reproductive techniques but why abort you when you are not less of a child? Just a child that may live her whole life in pain. - Sister Nike .

Do they have the financial war chest (right now, not funds in hopes banks o ) for the medical procedures?  If the answer is no, then they should deal with whatever feelings they have right now and part ways. If they have the funds, then do they have the mental stamina to stand the waits and held-in expectations? The procedures require a lot of patience such that can easily peel off those soft feelings they have for each other now. Now they are already worried about removing embryo(s). They should know it's a practical part of the medical procedures to achieve healthy babies in such a situation. Can they stand this? Why start future battles you can avoid today? Why create multiple future heartaches when you can easily deal with just one now? My candid take is that it's better they handle that "overpowering feelings" that will still fade, and do the practical thing. Part ways. - Brother Pachiben .

 In my opinion (my own opinion o) It is not only going to be financially stretching for them but are they ready for the long emotional trauma and journey? They are in love, I know. I just hope that love is enough for them in the long run. There's no good or bad way to look at it, but it all depends on them and the long journey ahead of them. If them go fit chest am udo diri ha (peace be unto them). - Sister Ihuoma .

Must they marry? It’s always better to bury the emotions early and find someone compatible in lieu of going through all the emotional, psychological and financial stress tomorrow. It’s always best to be practical, these same feelings they share today can change tomorrow cos marriage comes with its own weight. Me I feel it’s an unnecessary hassle, na just small heartbreak it will cost now. Or they have the faith to have their genotype changed supernaturally before tying the knot. - Sister Migdal .

There is a way that seems right to man……. We teach our children how precious they are. We quote scriptures telling them how God knew them before they were born and had His eyes on them in the womb. Then we turn around and say, terminate embryos that look like they have issues. There are states in America where babies have been terminated at 39 weeks. Is that less ethical than at 10 weeks? The real question here is the value we place on human life. Can I terminate my pregnancy if I want a boy and the embryo is female? I have a good friend who believed the man was her husband and trusted God and married him. They have 2 children today, neither is SS. My take is, if you do not have the faith to marry a fellow AS person, please walk away. - Sister FUNMI .

The  conclusion is Believers also have another option, the supernatural..but please, if no miracle happens to their genotype, or forth telling didn't stop the embryo from being unhealthy.. if it gets to the point they are sure the foetus is SS (except the Holyspirit is leading them not to, and they are sure He is the one o..) Please take it out..that is why you are having assisted reproduction in the first place - Sister Nike 

What is the faith to marry an AS person, if I may ask? I think it is a
different case when we are talking about male or female..in this case, the child will most likely ask why you decided to keep them. A question ma, if someone comes to you today, AS married to AS, pregnant, foetus tested and SS, what will you advise? - Sister Nike .

I don’t give advice my sister. The choice is up to them. Couples have decided to marry and adopt rather than risk having SS children I believe it’s a slippery slope when you accept selective abortion as a rule. - Sister FUNMI .

If they are both considering marriage, that means they believe that they are probably right for each other. The question is what is the Holy Spirit saying to them individually? Is he giving a go-ahead? If yes, The Holy Spirit can heal them, I will advise that they/one of them wait to be healed first to AA. If not, They will have to take responsibility for their actions in the future and the current butterflies in their tummy is nothing compared to the rude shock that the realities of birthing a sickler child will do to them, the marriage can scatter at the end. It will end in many tears, sleepless nights, endless prayers, and what nots. Kon la oju won Heartbreak is a small thing. 'Love' should not degenerate to hate, regrets, and bitterness because of the wrong choices. If they are financially okay and they have the grit and money to wade the tide, then they may explore the Assisted productive technique mentioned earlier. - Sister Refe.

 I used to think so until I saw a case. After Opolopo heartbreak, she found a guy that loves her, treats her right and she is at peace with (according to her) and they are now very much in love. Family said no, she said she and her man have discussed and will go the scientific medical route to have healthy AS/AA children. They have already started looking into financial implications. I pointed out the emotional aspect especially the abortion part, she understands that too… They are still going strong and they will tie that knot (from all the indicators I can see)… Now, if na me, I go break up? I very much doubt it. 60% sure I won’t sha… I know it doesn’t address the main case but thought to add it here… - Sister Ola.

 I have a family friend who took this route, dated since undergrad days in University, found out they were both AS when they were doing MSc in Canada. Broke up for about 4 years, none were finding partners anywhere. Came back together and tied the knot. They had their first baby last year November in Canada. - Sister Toyosi.

Of course, the way of the believer is supernatural. I believe in miracles, candidly my being here in this group, my personal life journey is a miracle. But why should one, out of vanity, jump from the pinnacle of the tower? Why take that unnecessary leap just because you know the angels are holding you in their arms? - Sister Pachiben.

 This will be too stressful, you think you are ready and can handle some things until the journey begins. I think they should go their separate ways now, I don't like to gamble with things like this especially if you are aware of all or most of the possible outcomes. Science? Yes, I have nothing against it, I like that they have/give options in matters like this. But, I am looking at the strain this process will have on the couple, and all that will be tested (faith, loyalty, love, finance, emotions...). Except they are thoroughly convinced, and are ready to continuously declare over what they want. 

 *Off Topic:* if they must stay together, can they agree not to have kids, and be doing the Lord's work? Or probably adopt. - Sister Adajay.

 Infatuation( what we call love) is a deadly thing. It shuts down the reasoning faculties, blurs the sight and shuts down the ability to hear. -Pachiben .

They might as well just adopt kids instead, why stress science  - Sister Blessing. 

I will say they have to be sure that they are led by the Holy Spirit. My uncle was AS and the Wife AS, and they got married without checking. He was in the US and my grandmother got him a wife in Nigeria and sent her over,  they had four children without having any SS Child. The children are all doing well. My uncle and his wife got to know they were AS  when they got married. A friend of mine was SS and was engaged to be married she had to wait, prayed until she became  AA. Now they are doing great. For me, I love you. I will die for you no dey do me oh.  They need to be sure of what they are going into, get emotions off the road, and face it. If they are not led by the Holy Spirit pls let them look for another. After all, love grows.  We move   - Sister OG.

 Even if the counsellors are against it and they tell the couple. What happens next? Even if the church says no, what happens next? The couple might still get married and you end up making yourself an enemy. They will have the kids regardless of other people’s opinions. These are adults that have made up their minds and chosen the path they want for themselves… From how it was worded, they are not even coming to you for advice because if that was the case, they would have come before feelings got too deep and marriage is now being planned (my opinion). If I am not an immediate family or their pastor, I don’t even chook mouth because the burden doesn’t really fall on me (financially or emotionally). I can ask you the difficult questions and highlight the risks, but it ends there really. I’ll put you in my prayers and try to support you the best I can. About the will of God with regard to IVF, if it’s TTC going down this route, will the same question come up? If no, why not? If it’s about the financial implications, what if they can afford it? Do we still have the same reservations? - Sister Ola .

Vanity is that thing that makes us humans depart from the part of wisdom. - Pachiben .

 It seems like they've made up their mind and from the question asked it isn't a case of having faith it will change or God said, they've looked at it practically  (influenced a little bit by emotion/love)and already thought it through about doing IVF I'll advise them to do more research look at all the other angles mental, physical, time, effort…. If they are sure it's what they want to do, God bless the Union. It is their decision to make. - Brother Olumuyiwa .

They should come to prophetic service, believing God for a change of genotype. Both of them to AA.  After it's done. They should sha send the testimony. (it's very very important). Then go on and live happily ever after  - Brother Chike.

 This is a very interesting case. What I will do is to present all the options available to them. For me, the options starts from 1. Activating the supernatural life that you already have. This can change the AS to AA or cause you to birth only SS. 2. Show them the science route. This includes selecting the embryo, IVF will AA egg or sperm, and stem cell therapy if the child is SS. 3. Abandon the marriage project. It's not by force. You will always heal and get someone else. Even if, you will survive living alone. I won't choose for them. They have to make their decision based on their understanding, growth and maturity. However, for me. I will do option 1. I rather die trying to live the supernatural than hold on to another thing if the supernatural is an option. But my partner must be at the same mindset with me. If not, we jejely do option 3. Close the shop and go home. -Pastor Fabian .

 One time, UGSW taught a lesson about Love and Responsibility. He emphasized that when it comes to making choices, we should always choose Responsibility over Love. Growing up, I had a neighbor who experienced significant hardships, particularly during her SS crisis. She was one of seven siblings with SS, but now only she and one other sibling are alive. The toll of the crisis was unbearable for her and it was most painful that we couldn't help at all. You could hear Kofo’s screams and cursing her parents because she was informed they knew their status before getting married.
She was brilliant but all of a sudden she stopped paying attention to her brilliance and lived each day as if she could die at any moment with no aspirations for the future. The Crises and a lot more eventually led to the separation of her patents. With that in mind,heres my suggestion (I’ve made it a personal goal to avoid advising  people in love as I find it often futile)-: 

1. Understand that at some point, you will realize that love alone isn’t enough. 
2. It is important to weigh your options carefully and consider what’s best not just for yourself, but also for your future children. - Sister Aderinsola.

Barring the supernatural, that love they speak of better be as strong as the rock of Gibraltar.
The strain of selecting embryos, the mental anguish of having a child with SS, the financial strain.
If that genotype doesn't change for one of them, they should better be sure of what they're doing.
I know love conquers all, but having a sickle cell child has conquered many marriages. - Sister Kanichi.

You can't choose an egg or sperm with AA.
This science is currently not available or mainstream Eugenics is still not mainstream.
What they do is do a chorionic sampling from week 12
If the fetus has SS it's aborted
If they want to trust God they should trust him all the way
What if nature plays a joke and every conception is an SS
Will they be aborting 12-week-old fetuses up and down? - Sister Zubeh

I mean they can do IVF with a surrogate mother that is the egg who is AA or the woman gets a sperm from an anonymous AA donor - Pastor Fabian.

Preimplantation genetic testing can be done before transfer/implantation - Sister Oyin.

My take: what does Scripture say about it?
"Whatever is NOT of FAITH is SIN"
-Romans 14:23
Whatever their FAITH can carry, they should go ahead with it. - Pastor Haruna .

Myself and my wife were both AS when we wanted to get married. I have a Sister with Sickle cell and so I know firsthand what the challenges are. 

I was close to cutting it off because the church won’t allow and my parents weren’t going to have it ( rightfully so). However, if I ever mentioned marriage to God in prayers, it was always  Toluwaleke. I had no problem talking to women or toasting women and I particularly saw what the future was with the other fine girls I had in mind. For this reason, I went against the tide and told everyone that I was going to get married to her. 

Now, we then sat down and looked at the consequences emotionally, materially and otherwise. We decided we weren’t going to talk to anyone about anything at all. I heard Bro Gbenga mention one day that nothing is impossible with a man and woman who are believers and again we were ready but we talked and agreed and we went forward. 

We got married and had our first issue and we paid about 700k for the test. We already knew we were not going to keep an SS foetus. So we had to evacuate. Now, it was emotional but we were ready. Life went on but my justification was that we both knew we were fertile and as such we would always make kids when we wanted. Now my marriage isn’t the best of the best at that time but the issues we had were even MORE than AS and AS issues or anything around it but we have gotten waaaaaayyyyyy better with life and it’s absolutely amazing now. Again, what you’ll go through in marriage will be FAR greater than AS v AS issues. They dragged me in December that of 52 weekends, I spent 34 for ministrations and so I have given them January for free and those other teething issues ( I’m not feeling fine, you didn’t tell me sorry… I’m not your lab rat… talk to me first before praying for me… why are you laughing on your phone and on and on but sometimes I like it and I look for trouble too.

Today, we have a 7-month-old son who is doing way better than his age. I remember when we started trying again when we were ready to go the route again… I remember Pastor Eyitayo mentioning one time that he heard or saw someone who would pray in the spirit when“the do” was happening and I made sure to apply this and I kid you not, I knew when we made him and I was certain nothing was wrong. Every day I would anoint and lay my hand on my wife and her tummy to say You’re only permitted to have “ A, B, C, D” and everything was so My God !!!!! Again, anything is absolutely possible for two believers who are proper believers ohh not religious churchgoers… Believers For me, marry away…all those talk about what can be or what should be… You create your reality, you create your future, you create the DNA, you own that space This is my experience… I am a believer, I create whatever I want to see and it happens! And by the way, we did all the medical research ohh I can literally tell you all the options and even places available in Nigeria and abroad -Pastor Babafemi. 
 
My mother is AC, My father is AS. We found out in August last year I cannot explain the supernatural though but none of us 6 children is SC - Sister Jennifer.

 There's something that I have discovered about living the supernatural life. It's more difficult when you have options. No matter how good or bad. As long as there's an option, it further alienates the need to pursue the supernatural. So in the face of options, you must make up your mind to ignore it, live the supernatural and create your reality. If Moses had the option of a bridge or ships, I don't think he would have parted the Red Sea - Pastor Fabian.

 I stopped talking about this because I realize that it is best to give people the most easily attainable options in marriage Especially when counseling them Faith is a personal thing and you cannot measure faith from the outside Only those who have faith can tell you if their faith is a working faith or a dead faith. This is a faithful saying, many believers will tell you they have faith but all they have is religious faith in something outside of themselves which they believe is God to save them, that is not Faith. Faith is not an external belief in God. Faith is internal. It is personal. It is in the bones as well as the marrow.
My grandmother and grandfather are both AS. They had 8 children, four survived. The other four were SS and they died young. My Father and Mother were both AS, they had six children between none of them was SS. When I was to get married the AS thing was mandatory to be done in the Catholic Church, I refused to do it. Ignorance was bliss for me I had come to know myself at the time and in my walk with God. Whatever knowledge I have affects my faith and my outcome. If I don’t have knowledge of anything what I believe is the ideal result or outcome is what will happen. If I have knowledge of things, once the knowledge is verified and the evidence is convincing, my faith would go with the evidence because it will be the prevailing knowledge So I decided not to do the test. We started having children and I kid you not it was not as easy as I thought The Lord told me the months when I will make healthy babies and the months when I cannot (I usually make healthy babies during or after a long fast). THIS IS A PERSONAL OBSERVATION OF MY OWN JOURNEY AND NOT A RECOMMENDATION TO ANYONE! I didn’t have the kind of money or desire to have the kind of knowledge that could tamper with my faith I spoke to my body, I spoke to the semen and I deposited them into the bank with great expectation of interest in 9 months. While they were in the incubator, I spoke to them, to their genes, to their bones, to their marrows, to their blood vessels I insisted that what I know is what I will get and I deafened my ears to noise from science and experiences. The first two children came out as AS then something happened with the third. While she was in the womb I got a call that affected my knowledge. The call said she would be an imbecile. It was from a so-called prophet from South Africa and please remember I told you I already know how my faith-to-outcome ratio works. Once there is any information or knowledge that stands contrary to my belief, it affects my outcome. Ignorance then of knowledge or information I don't need to have is key to my ability to produce results by faith. I rejected it and it became a battle in my heart and my spirit. Many of us here know the story, that knowledge made that girl's outcome different for the first few years of her life until the Lord healed her. So I counsel every believer to know himself and how the Lord walks with him, some need much information to feed their conviction unto faith. Some need less information so that their conviction is not shaken in the place of faith. Some need someone to join them in prayer for their faith to be strong. Some always get better results when they go solo. Some get blessed in corporate anointing setting. Meditation is the key for others. We all have our frequencies of the spirit and they differ for every individual. When you have come to learn of yourself in the place of faith, you will know how to handle all things and get the result you want.
 -GSW- 

Good Morning All, First, let’s clarify the question. Are we asking: 1. Whether the couple should get married despite both being AS?
 2. Or whether they should proceed with their plan to use IVF after getting married? My response will be based on understanding what is most important to the couple. 

1. Should They Get Married? We must consider: what if their bond, shared values, and life goals outweigh the desire or ability to have children? What if they are content with the possibility of not having children at all? Before we suggest parting ways, let’s acknowledge that many factors can affect a couple’s ability to have children, even if both are healthy. There are cases where couples face challenges such as repeated miscarriages, requiring them to remain steadfast in faith and perseverance. The question is: do they fully understand the implications of their situation? If not, they need proper guidance and education to make an informed decision. Now, let’s revisit the question with a key detail: “Two believers.” This changes everything. How much faith and understanding do they have, and how far are they willing to trust God through this process? For me personally, I might not have the energy to take on such a situation, but others with a stronger will and deeper faith might. In conclusion, marriage isn’t solely about having children. If all other attributes they desire in marriage are present, why not trust God and move forward? After all, they are believers, aren’t they? 

A Personal Reflection: Years ago, when my wife and I were expecting our last child, she was well overdue. The doctors suggested induction or a possible cesarean. We initially accepted this plan, but the night before, I felt strongly in my spirit that we didn’t have to settle for that. A 69-year-old man of God advised me: “Whether the baby comes via CS or naturally, the key thing is that the baby will come.” While there was nothing wrong with induction or cesarean, I was fully persuaded to believe for a natural outcome, and that’s exactly what happened. This situation, though different in magnitude, operates on the same principle: faith, persuasion, and trusting God.
 2. Is Using IVF and Genetic Testing Against the Word of God? Let me approach this with a question: If someone is brutally raped (forgive the language), would it be right or wrong to evacuate an embryo conceived from that trauma? Now, consider this: if a new technology allowed an embryo to be adjusted to prevent a child from being born with sickle cell disease, would you use it? For many, the answer would likely be yes. But what if, during this process, there’s a risk of embryo loss or abortion? This issue is more about morality than anything else. It’s a human decision, not necessarily something to “drag God into.” If you seek justification for such actions, I can provide many. If you seek reasons against it, I can also provide many. Ultimately, the decision should be driven by love. When love guides your actions, it is easier to find peace with the outcome. I hope this response provides some insight and hasn’t come across as rambling. - Brother Chuk.

The Financial challenge, while important, is nothing near the heavy emotional and psychological toll that comes with living with, or caring for a child with SS. - Brother Okoro.